Bughouse in trouble?, Please, share your thoughts. Options

[Eru Iluvatar]

Well, there is a lot of talk (by Bughouse standards) about us lately. Not glowing reviews, but not unfounded either. We are really here to try to get more NEIU members to talk to each other, to form a better community, and we invite discussion, criticism, suggestions, assistance, etc.

Tell us what we should do, tell us what you want to do to help, tell us why we're wrong, tell us why we're right, tell us stuff. And don't stop there.

Please, look at Bugspray's blog or read the article in the Independent.

[OldMan]

Reading Bugspray's blog entry, I can't help but agree things ain't going that good. I'm particularily confused about the blogs. How can people who have not posted even one entry on their blog get hundreds of hits? How can people who have not made an entry since summer of last year continue to get hits. How can I get 1500 hits one week and only eight the next? It doesnt make sense. How can I know for sure just how many people are actually reading my blog, or anyone's for that matter?

Bugspray has some good points, and one of them is that Bughouse needs to promote it self much better. The Independent has continually tried to inform students of it's existance, but unless you guys take advantage of your FREE classified ad every issue and your FREE block ad every semester, why should the paper continue to give the space when you dont bother to take advantage of the freebies?

Promotion is a continual thing around campus. We got 400 plus members on bughouse? What are they doing? Certainly not participating in the forums. You should have at least a 90 day period whereby if someone doesnt post or do something, you can be assured they are no longer active and then delete them. Numbers dont mean nothing if they aint logging in.

I like Bughouse and I was elated when you guys began the blogs. It has given me a place to post my writing. But as it stands, I have no confidence in the numbers, and I am discouraged by the lack of your self-promotion.
Let's see some action. Us active members will certainly support you.

[jbhalper]

I understand the points about advertising more, getting more activity moving here, and that stuff.

What i'm less sure about is the hits thing. I have my own stuff online that i like to see traffic for, but the reports i get there are more comprehensive than the simple hit counters here on Bughouse, and i still don't find them really useful in any important ways. It's just like a trophy, sort of, not any serious indicator.
I think part of what you guys are seeing is that Bughouse manages hits in a pretty rudimentary way. From what i know, spiderbots aren't able to access Bughouse forums and blogs (hence no search returns) but i may be off on that. It came up when we moved to V4 in May.

Another thing that happens with hits, is that it counts when you go to the blog, and then, if you look at the comments, i think that's another hit, and then if you post a comment, that's another hit! Then, if you decide to just go back to the blog entirely, another hit. It's not a smart system, just counts page access. Joe, your account sounds unusual, but not like a serious problem. It doesn't tell you if anyone actually read what you wrote any of those 1508 times, or how much they read, or if they liked it. And the hits just pile up. If you posted something when blogs were introduced, no matter how little you do with it now, anyone who goes and looks counts as a hit. Producing constantly will keep you in the limelight, but visitors can read (and give that hit to) any blog that's listed.

I totally understand wanting to know if something's happening with your blog, but i don't see how that presents any major problems to the success or failure of Bughouse generally.

I'm only diverting at this point, so i'm done for now.

This post has been edited by jbhalper: Feb 25 2006, 11:46 PM

[OldMan]

I was merely using my blog as an example, since it is the most active. If you do not see that a problem in this area affects all blog users and thus the overall success of bughouse, then I failed to make my point. If I cannot rely on the figures in the blogs, how can I rely on all the other figures in the stats? How accurate are they, if at all? I only know that there are just a few consistant users in the forums which equal only around two percent of the members. That dont sound too good. Even with discounting the self-hits for posting and comment review, I still dont comprehend how I or Bugspray, two examples, can get 200 hits a day, sometimes for several days, on a single entry, unless someone is having fun with us. And, with those hits, no comments. Not one. That too, is odd.

This post has been edited by OldMan: Feb 26 2006, 12:04 AM

[jbhalper]

I think i still don't see your point.

Hit counters are much more finicky than the other stats counts, much more subject to fluctuation, even on a wild scale. I don't see what relation it has to whether or not Bughouse succeeds. If 100 people visit your site 2 times in a day, that's the same as 200 visiting once, or whatever combo.

With 450+ members, and potentially 12,000 people on NEIU who might be slightly aware of the site, as well as particularly large spikes for you when you publish your column (address is regularly in The Independent, isn't it?) any old person can come along and read your blog, thus giving it a hit, so it doesn't need to be from so small a pool. Even with anomalies, i don't think that's really a systematic problem with Bughouse or the forum software, and on top of that, i don't see how to extrapolate it into an indicator of problems on Bughouse, or the method by which to find a solution.

Maybe we're just missing each other still, but in general terms, i don't see how the two are tied.

[Bugspray]

I have seen the number of members grow, yet the number of active members stagnate or shrink. You could have a hundred new members a semester, but if no one participates, does it really matter? Bughouse needs to promote basically its two biggest assests, the lively discussions on the forums and the blogs, both are the two main pillars of Bughouse. Old Man's column on here is sorta like a "killer app" for this site, peopel read it on the paper and the ones aware of the bughouse version will come on here. To some lesser extent my crappy little sad blog is another "feature" on Bughouse, along with the other ones who actively keep up their blogs. By the end of the last semester that I was still a full-time NEIU student back in the previous Spring semester, the forums were dominated by basically 9 individuals. Today, nearly a year later, it is still the same 9 (ok, actually, perhaps one or two have come on board since then, but I think they mearly replaced someone who left.) who dominate. In that time, we supposedly had a slew of new members, yet still no corresponding increase in participation.

[Gilgamesh]

i think the most accurate way to gauge if people are reading your stuff is to ask them for input. I read your journal, and thus account for some of your hits, but what if i clicked it by mistake? the hits are just number of times your your page is viewed but doesn't include things like if anyone read what you wrote. i know that people like to read your blog, and your newspaper articles, so i would take the words of praise (which i know you get, after all i've given you some) even if fewer in number than the hits as an indicator of your impact both in print and online. that being said i know what you're saying about the hits. its a pain in the ass.

[jbhalper]

I think those are decent points, but how do you encourage participation then?

I don't think Blogs encourage participation. Sure' they're popular and they invite people to read, but it doesn't have the same sense of discussion, though in your case with the post that's been put on announcement, it could spur action.

The troublesome part, is enticing people from registration and reading, to active discussion. Much the same as classes, where thousands of people register and attend classes, a pretty small ratio are active participants in them. So, what can we do to encourage participation?

Suggestions:

Active members, PM new members and talk to them.

Post more varied topics, rather than lots of politics. While it may be comfortable for us, it may be and is uncomfortable, and uninteresting for people who aren't familiar with our discussion.

Talk about it to real people, who you think will actively participate, and follow up. (I've done this)

You guys got any?



I still think that hit volume isn't a good correllative, it's not unusual to have a large group with a small active body. Look at NPR, responses to the Independent, submissions to Apocalypse, people who showed up at the Strike, etc. Even though lots of people are aware, and consume those products, very small numbers actually participate. I don't think it's particularly specific to Bughouse, but it's definitely apparent. I think it would be more useful to try to solve the problem, rather than continue to explain it. Or at least some combination.

[Gilgamesh]

Let us know what you think about the recently posted signs

[stubbstarbuck]

I'd be willing to contribute financially to printing full color posters that promote Bughouse if the University would place them. I imagine a poster sized print would run about $40 or so printed on foam core and could be displayed on an easel or some such thing. I would be surprised if there wasn't funding for this through student activities already.

[Bugspray]

Is Bughouse a student organization? If so, all organizations get $100 (could be more) to advertise/promote themselves.

[Eru Iluvatar]

Bughouse isn't a student organization, nor a club, we're this weird little anomaly. We attempted to gain this status, and were well on our way, but we got seriously held up when the SGA went into self-investigatory mode. Which has created a fair amount of trouble for us. It prevents us from those free ads in the paper, which we have tried to claim. Our almost non-existant budget and small part-time workforce also makes things difficult in terms of aggressive campaigning.

And, listen, we hear what you guys are saying and appreciate it. It's not the sort of thing you say just to rag on us, it's honest criticism, and it makes good sense. We're looking at it a lot harder now.

I particularly like the Marketing Club idea that Greg presented. (There is a club, right? It's not a hypothetical?) Soon we'll try to contact them and see what happens.

Though i personally like the Bughouse name/logo/whatever, i wouldn't be so stubborn as to keep that in place of community, so if anyone wants to start thinking about that sort of thing brainstorming is welcome and could potentially be the new face of Bughouse.

Jbhalper also presents some alright ideas about action you can take pretty easily, and for free, that might help promote Bughouse.

But, for promotion, that's where we can use most help. You can feel free to print information about us, we do have permission to post fliers (with the NEIU logo readily seen) in the halls. If you guys have more creative ideas than that, feel free to take it on yourself. We've got plans for a banner, which has been delayed for some time but hopefully is coming through soon.

I feel like my post is a bit nebulus, but i wanted to hit as much as possible. Thanks for responding guys, we're really here to keep things worked out, and get more people involved but it's a handful.

[Gilgamesh]

i agree, with eru for the most part. also i don't see any of this news as bad, i'm quite happy for one major reason. although quite a few people said they thought bughouse was in some trouble 71.43% of people said they would be willing it help bughouse out. before eru and i took the wheel here when cameron held a bughouse "meeting" myself, eru, and kastigar were the only people to show. after we took over we proposed a "make you own bughouse contest" no one signed up. speaking for myself (although i think eru might echo me on this one) i was under the impression that people wanted to come here every so often and post a few things. now i'm under the impression people want to build on the bughouse community, at least to some extent. as a moderator i was under the impression that bughouse was some sort of trouble in a sense that a lot of people probably didn't get, i thought a lot of out members who were "active" as posters didn't have much desire to be active as "members of the community" beyond simply typing and then pressing the "add reply" button.

although i'm not completely against changing the name of bughouse i don't see it as a real fix to any problems. what could we change it to that is better? i don't think the name is what should sell us, our content and our ads should do the trick. people buy toyota cars, sony electronics, visit google, and so on not because of their names, simply because they offer a service or product which is useful..... i think bughouse can do well with the name it has.

during the strike on days we had 20+ users sign up in a single day they never mentioned the name, there was no use, and in the end they were here because we had something very valuable to offer.

that is my take on it, with any name we have to find our niche, and expose ourselves. this is the key to our sucess.

this being said i'm not entirely opposed to changing the name, just don't see it as a real solution to anything.

[Gilgamesh]

also, we will try to make some signature bughouse things available in the near future such as fonts, images and posters in case people want to help promote bughouse or make their own signs.

[toadzy]

Let us know what you think about the recently posted signs

i think the free poster sign is the best one. The word free always draws attention..and of all of the bughouse posters i've seen around campus, it is the one with the most 'tips' torn off of it (that is, out of the recent signs put up).

This post has been edited by toadzy: Mar 3 2006, 03:12 PM

[toadzy]

I don't think changing the name of bughouse solves anything, it just changes the name.
The first thing to do would get the existing memebers to participate, as jbhalper said,

second, if possible, call up student union, ask to set up a table in village square, print a huge poster, ask existing members to sit in and tell people about bughouse.

honestly as a new memeber i wasn't even aware that bughouse was in trouble.

also the front cover of the site for bughouse (i'm not sure what that is called) maybe bold some things freshen it up a bit, post more questions, have quizzes, competitions. the site always looks the same, and people get bored. i hope this is somewhat helpful?

[Bugspray]

You know, it just occurred to me, why not encourage professors to use the site as well? Look you got that blackboard thingy, but how about using bughouse? Would it be that difficult in utilizing a forum for a specific class? Teachers can post stuff, they can even hold "lectures" in that chatroom thingy that I don't think anyone uses. Its why I love Bughouse, the opportunities are boundless at this place!

[kastigar]

Suggestions:

Active members, PM new members and talk to them.

Post more varied topics, rather than lots of politics. While it may be comfortable for us, it may be and is uncomfortable, and uninteresting for people who aren't familiar with our discussion.

Talk about it to real people, who you think will actively participate, and follow up. (I've done this)

You guys got any?

Yes, I just tried something - maybe it will work.

Often you come across an interesting article and post the thing here on Bughouse. You might also post it to an NEIU mailing list if you think it might be of interest there.

Instead, do this:

Post the article to Bughouse.
Copy the URL of the article post.
Post only the first few lines of so of the article to your NEIU Mailing list.
Add a sentence "The rest of the article can be read at...."
and then put in the clickable link to the Bughouse article.

We might get a few people interested in investigating further.

[Katemp]

When I first joined I thought it was a great place to possibly meet new people or get study buddies - or anything really.. and then things kind of died..

I know I haven't posted much at all as of this semester.. I would ask the few people I know about if they go to Bughouse and they don't know what it is... One thing I've noticed, despite being able to check email, compose an email and send it, many are not real internet-know-it-alls. I'm not saying they have to make websites but..

Ah. I don't know. I found out about Bughouse from the Independent.. and... That's all I can think of... But on the other hand, I would love to try at the whole "Please come to bughouse.. it's a lotta fun!" -uh-promoting kind of thing.

You know, Bughouse isn't even mentioned on the NEIU's homepage? That's real sad.

[Gilgamesh]

When I first joined I thought it was a great place to possibly meet new people or get study buddies - or anything really.. and then things kind of died..

I know I haven't posted much at all as of this semester.. I would ask the few people I know about if they go to Bughouse and they don't know what it is... One thing I've noticed, despite being able to check email, compose an email and send it, many are not real internet-know-it-alls. I'm not saying they have to make websites but..

Ah. I don't know. I found out about Bughouse from the Independent.. and... That's all I can think of... But on the other hand, I would love to try at the whole "Please come to bughouse.. it's a lotta fun!" -uh-promoting kind of thing.

You know, Bughouse isn't even mentioned on the NEIU's homepage? That's real sad.

I share your frustration, but on our side, its not like we've been asleep at the wheel. we've been told a number of times that bughouse will be linked to the website, we've done a lot of graphics work, promotional work, and website work, the two paid moderators (we do all kinds of work, not just reading the forum) are hired for 5 hours a week, which we usually surpass (but don't get paid for) and our faculty member (tintin) doesn't get any payment or real credit besides the praise. we work hard, but the university does very little regarding our website.

Remember though, bughouse is only as useful as its members make it. so come back, post often, and spread the word...